Episode 45 - Loving People While Confronting Sin

We wrestle with how to love people without condoning sin, how to practice real accountability without shunning, and why community is the engine of spiritual growth. Stories, Scripture, and lived experience ground a call to keep relationships open, stay humble, and tell the truth in love.

• why shunning fails and love pursues 
• truth without harshness, love without license 
• accountability that starts with ourselves 
• private sins, public grace, real repentance 
• community that confesses and sharpens 
• parenting prodigals and discerning nominal faith 
• building groups that stretch, not flatter 
• prayer for open dialogue and closer walks with God

Come on by, we will have a prayer at 10:00, have coffee and donuts at 10:00, and then worship will start at 10:30.

connectchurchrockdale.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Welcome to Let's Connect, the official podcast of Connect Church in Rockdale, Texas, where we want to help you to live a life that matters. One that is both on mission and has a purpose to follow Jesus and make disciples. So let's get started.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

All right, welcome into Let's Connect, the official podcast of Connect Church here in Rockdale, Texas. We're actually kind of on the road today.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

We are. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Doing this one from Cameron. Don't anybody in Rockdale take offense? It's just we both happen to be in Cameron at the same time and came to the family office, and here we are. So it's all good. It's all good. It is good, man. So uh I'm not certain which episode this is. I have I've kind of lost count and I was trying to pull up and see which one it was, but I don't know what my login is either on that deal. So I have to wait till I get back to the office. But we're moving, we're moving through uh I want to say it's like 44.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

It's way up there.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

So it's hard to imagine.

Ice Storm Break And Podcast Housekeeping

SPEAKER_02 1:17

If you missed us last week, um obviously if you're listening to this in 2027, last week was last year. But if you listen to us each week, we appreciate you. And uh we missed it last week, but we had a pretty major ice storm, and with my job, I was I was inundated with everything going on, and and it was at the emergency operations center and getting that ready and everything, and so uh we just we just missed last week. So we're gonna make up for it. We're not gonna go long, long, we're gonna do the same amount of time, but we're gonna make sure that we get some good information out. And so again, this is Let's Connect, our official podcast for Connect Church here in Rockdale, Texas. And um, if you're here in Rockdale, we meet at the American Legion right now, and um, you know, we have coffee and uh donuts. Yep. Donut holes. No, that's that's that's January. So that's over. Yeah, so that's over. But we'll still have donuts. You can just get the whole donut, you know. Yeah, and so that goes on at 10 to 10.30, 10.30 worship starts, and we do have kids' church and a nursery if you need it. So come on out and join us, and if you're not in the area, well, every Thursday we put out a new episode of Let's Connect. So uh enjoy. So today, um, for the last few weeks, I had a conversation a few weeks ago, and uh for the last few weeks this has kind of been going through my head, and it's one of those things that uh I I think I don't want people to misunderstand. Sometimes when we talk about uh judgment and repentance and and and topics like that, it can kind of get lost in the shuffle. And in the good old days, you know, when somebody was had um had a sinful issue that they weren't repentant about, I'll just say it that way. In some cases it might be uh drunkenness, in some cases it might be uh you know a sexual orientation or something, or or or or it's as silly as this sound, I I was reading on some of this and there was a church where uh body piercing other than the ears of a female was enough to get you basically shunned from that church. Yeah. And so back in the day though, when things like that happened, that's the way the churches, that's the way uh Christians, you know, the the the the whatever you however you want to I don't want to lop everybody into the label of Christian, but that's the way a lot of folks deemed Christians as being is if you were this, this or this and it didn't go along with what they thought was scriptural or what was you know sinful, then you were just immediately shunned. And that's not what that's not what Jesus did. That's not what the Bible's about. And um I've always felt myself that if you do that, you never give those people an opportunity. As a matter of fact, you turn them away from any opportunity they may have rather than trying to minister to them, uh disciple to them, you know. And so today I just thought, you know, we'd we'd we we'd talk about that a little bit because I know that's challenging for a lot of people to uh understand how to well what is the quote unquote proper way to deal with that.

From Shunning To Shepherding

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah. Well, first of all, love never ends, right? And so how do we know we love somebody we want the best for them? And so we continue to love even and you know the sin thing is like we we were so far one direction. You talk about the you know the church, like we had uh some sins that were not uh we've got a lot of sins now that are uh totally acceptable, and no sin is acceptable, but we used to to not tolerate some sins and shun or whatever, not love really, I think, is is is what we did. And now we've now it seems like almost all sin is is okay. Do you know what I mean when I say that? And so yeah, we've got to man, I hate to say find some middle ground, but uh but but love is gonna, you know, love covers a multitude of sin. And and and so yeah, we've we've got c scripture's clear on how to how to do this, even when it says treat someone like a gentile, which would be as a non-Christian, which is kind of like shunning, okay. Uh I know that's not politically correct in 2026, but it just we all know what that means to cancel somebody or to shun somebody. We've still got to maintain some form of a relationship so we can't, as you just said, uh be their entryway into a relationship or maybe back into a relationship if those people are Christians and have just backslidden, like we used to say, and sin has just kind of captured their life and they're walking uh they're not walking with Christ, even though they do have a relationship with Christ. Does that make sense?

Love, Truth, And The Drift On Sin

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Yeah. No, you you no, it makes a lot of sense. I I I think all too often churches will avoid those subjects. You know, and and and the thing is is because you are willing to continue to have a relationship with that person doesn't always mean that you necessarily accept those issues, you know. Um one of my biggest problems is is I love to eat. You know, and I most people do I I have been a real fatty before in my life. And uh you know that that's a sin. Yeah, that's actually a sin. And so, you know, I I've lost a lot of weight and I've worked on it. But you when you talk about where we are in life and we just accept things, we accept all kinds of things now. And and and and you know, while while it is okay to have that relationship with that person and to work with that person and to minister to that person or worship with that person, we can't lose track of the fact that it can't that that that lifestyle can't be uh acceptable. You know, and and and while you want the best for that person and you want them to to be to have a a walk with Christ, a true walk with Christ, we also have to understand that while we love those people, while we while we well while we want to be around them, while we want to be a part of their lives, we also can't accept that non-repentance for those sinful acts, whether it is like in my case, eating too much or you know, being an alcoholic or or homosexuality or pornography. Pornography is another big one that because it happens behind closed doors and and everybody, you know, used to be, you know, when we were little kids, you had to have a film projector almost or or live close to a theater, and then sometime when we were in high school and stuff, and then you could, you know, watch it on your VHS, you know, you could you or or your Betamax. Did you have a Betamax? We had a Betamax for a while. Yeah, we just had that. That went out of style real fast. Yeah. Or you know, but but now if you got a phone, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Sadly.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

It's right there on your phone. And so you know, when we talk about these these these things that are that are sinful in nature, and and i i it's it's a it's a long list of things. And so if you were to shun everybody, yeah, I don't know how you shun yourself, yeah, but you would probably at some point have to shun yourself because none of us are perfect and all of us, you know, we are sinful by nature, but once we become a Christian, that sinful nature, that's what you're working on all the time. And so we all slip, but it's how we get up, how we repent, how we recover from that, and how we try to keep that from happening again. It's when you just allow it or you write it off, and you're like, Oh, well, you know, that's it, you know, it'll be all right. Well, no, that those those things actually prevent you from having that close walk with God.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Yeah, sin fractures our relationship and uh damages it, and we should be concerned, right? When we see a brother or sister, someone that claims Christ, maybe someone we're going to church with, when we see sin in their life, it it should bother us, hurt us, because we love them and we want them to walk in the closest possible way with Christ. And so we ought to we ought to be, and again, this goes back to relationships, that we're in a relationship with others that we can uh go to them in love and tell them the truth. And it ought to be received the way it's shared, and but we all know how that goes, right? People blow up and sometimes they blow out, and uh and then we we're like, well, I'll never do that again. But that's not that's not what scripture says to do. And so yeah, it's uh it a lot of this goes back to honest communication, right? When you some of the examples you shared it's uh and you know, before we started recording, we were talking about some of my you know extended family and and some issues there and and um yeah, I think we can agree to disagree. Does that make sense? Yeah. And continue in a relationship, loving relationship.

Accountability Without Acceptance

SPEAKER_02 11:02

And that's the thing, is is you know, we were like you said when before we before we started recording, we were talking off the air, and you know it it's that old thing. Um I'll say it again, I know you've heard me say it probably a couple times, but we used to live in a world where you could disagree with somebody 20% of the time or something. I use that as a figure. And it didn't mean that that you were gonna shun that person and not have anything to do with it. And now we live in a place where I may not be living perfect, but if you don't agree with the way I look at things 100%, I don't want anything to do with you. You know, and that's that that that that that's where where we are. And and the fact of the matter is we've talked about how the Bible says, you know, you know, we always hear all, you know, you shouldn't tell me that, judge ye, you know, judge not me lest ye be judged, and and and and and we've talked about how what that actually means. And what the Bible actually says is that we need to hold each other accountable, but we also need to be held accountable. It's not enough for me to look at you and say, Ken, you're screwed up here, you need to fix this.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

It's it's it's or or you tell me, you know, Bill, you're screwed up. It's enough, it's on me to say, you know what? Man, he's right. Yeah, he's right. I need to work on this. And like I think what you were saying a minute ago is so true. Where when you point those things out, so many people nowadays are like, what do you don't tell me that? I don't need to hear that. They just don't talk to me anymore, you know. And and it's crazy how it has gotten to there. Yeah. But if we are to have a true walk with Christ, a walk with God, we have to be we have to be able to be held accountable and and and hold others accountable at the same time. And we're not doing that because I'm better than you, or you need to be more like me, or I need to be more like so and so. It's a matter of out of love. You know, I don't want you to fail. I don't want to fail. And and and by me saying I don't want to fail, I want people to be able to tell me things and say, Oh wow. Yeah. You know, it's it's a everywhere I go, it's what I've told my kids a long time ago. You know, never assume I know what I'm doing. If you see me and you're like, man, I I just I'm not certain about that. We used to have this thing in the military called a training timeout where no matter what was going on, you could hold up the timeout signal and everybody stopped to address something, and that's how you keep people from getting hurt or whatever. But we need that in our Christian life too. We need that ability to say, hey, we need to take a timeout for a minute and discuss this and figure out what what what's going on. And so, you know, when I when I took my current job, I I brought everybody in the office, and I and everybody I've hired since I've told them the same thing. If you ask any one of my eight children, what's the truth about dad, they'll tell you, never assume dad knows what he's doing.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Yeah. Do you think people are not keeping a close watch over themselves? You know, we think about uh getting the the log out of your eye before you try to extract a speck out of somebody else's eye. Like I want to keep myself on a short leash. Yeah. I want to be constantly examining my life, opening my life up to God through his word, right? That's why getting in the word's important. Let the Holy Spirit use it to hit your heart, uncover the areas where you're stumbling, which is a constant for me. I mean, man, I mean, there's several of us reading through the New Testament. It's like every day, man. I mean, Peter's hit me, and then Paul, I got a tag team, and I don't have anybody on my team, you know. It's Peter and Paul are just like kicking me in the throat over and over. And so uh, yeah, I mean, I've got a full time more than a full-time job, me staying close to Christ. And uh but as I do that faithfully and honestly with myself, right, it it's it's humbling and there's no pride. And um and I think in a way that enables me to to speak to others. And here's the deal. I mean, every Christian is a struggling Christian. And so when I look at people and I see stuff when I see stuff, I'm like, you know, they're struggling, just like me, just maybe in a different area. And of course their area is always worse than mine, right? And that's pride. Yeah. You know, they're like, I can't believe they're doing that. Uh which is wrong. But uh but yeah, we so often we get angry at those people when we ought to feel compassion.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Yeah.

Private Sins, Public Grace

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Right? And and then if someone's in full out sin, they may not even know the Lord, regardless of what they say. I mean, I I witnessed to a guy yesterday and he's like, Yeah, I'm I'm religious, you know, I believe, and I'm like, oh, and that's enough. He goes, I mean this is just yesterday, and he goes, Yeah. I said, God's happy with you? He goes, Oh yeah. No. And you know, it's hard for me not to just kind of just jump on him, you know, and try to get Jesus in him. But but you know, I just prayed for him when he left. But uh yeah, people, we ought to be concerned when people how they respond to us as we uh share with them in love might be in you know indicative of maybe where they're really at. But also if people are just full out uh rebellion, like we've had to we've had you know sad thing is even our kids sometimes we have to go, you know what, there's just too much indicating maybe they don't know the Lord. Yeah. Regardless of if they walked the aisle, jumped in the water, joined the church. I mean I got a brother that uh used to teach Sunday school as a young man, he's not a young man anymore, and he and he told me one day, he said, you know, there's more than one way to heaven. And I thought, dude, that's you know, I that's messed up. That's not a Christian that says that. There's only one way, right? Christ is the way. So regardless of what he's done, and that's you know, he wouldn't claim to be a Christian either.

Concern, Compassion, And Correction

SPEAKER_02 17:06

So here's the thing is is you ra you know, if you've raised your kids and you've raised them in that Christian home or what you felt like it was a Christian home and they've gone off and they've done their thing, and you think, where did I go wrong? You really may never have gone wrong. No, uh-uh. Uh I I think we make too much of that nowadays. Yeah. Um, I know when when I I was raised, man, every Sunday we were in church, Sunday nights, Wednesdays, youth group, um, went to RA, can't remember RA, that was off. Even to RA camp, though not G A camp. Yeah, yeah, no, I didn't go to GA camp. But but the fact of the matter is, once I left home, especially after I joined the United States Navy, I was far, far away from God for a long time. I mean, far away. And we would still go to church and we would still make the motions. Yeah. But I wasn't there. I mean, I was I was physically there, but mentally there, and in my heart, I really wasn't there. And I think that that happens a lot more than we know, and and people struggle to find a way back. There's that thought path, well, I've done so much crazy stuff or horrible stuff. There's no way I can find my way back. And you can. But I think to a certain extent, every one of us had somebody that you went to church with when you were younger, and probably still to this day, that is that is not not a not a not a nice person to go to church with. They're gonna they're they don't have any problem telling you where you're wrong. They don't have any problem saying, you know, well, Miss Fanny's little nephew is such a horrible kid, and she drags him in here to church every week and blah, blah, blah, or or Miss Fanny's out running around again, and blah, blah. And they're so worried about what's going on with everybody else, they've never taken that time, you know, to look inwardly and see where they are. And here's the thing is I had somebody tell me a while back, well, the thing I you know, the thing is is y'all never say anything, and and this is a collective, y'all. Yeah. Y'all you y'all never say anything, and I and I just looked at her and I said, Did you ever think that maybe I'm so busy trying to keep myself on the right track that sometimes I don't have time to look at everybody else? Yeah. You know, I I and and and and if I do see it, I I'll probably say something. But there's a lot of the times when when I'm, you know, knocking myself in the head like I should have had a V8 or something, and and and it's because I did something that was dumb, you know, and I can just feel God just shaking his head, just you know, and it's there. And so you have to take care of yourself first, but you have to be able to talk to others, you have to be able to listen to others, and we have to be able to listen. Love those that aren't there yet, I guess is the best way to and and and even the ones that aren't there and aren't trying to get there right now either. Because if we come at them from that standpoint that we're gonna shun you. I don't want anything to do with you. All right. If you're not gonna follow what I follow, you don't believe what I believe, if you're not gonna try to work at what I want you to work at, and that's what it is, it's what I want them to work at.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

That's where our problem gets in. It's where I want them to do this. I want them to be this way. I want to be in that church that's what I want. Yeah. And if I don't get that, then I won't have anything to do with it. Yeah. And and that's where we run into problems, and that's where we turn people off, not only to to come into that church or coming to church at all, but but we turn them off to God, and that's where we do a disservice. And I'm not certain there's I'm not certain there's much more of a harmful thing that we can do to somebody than to to be the reason why they're turned off. And it's because we didn't we didn't it's not a matter of accepting their sin, but it's a matter of caring about them, loving them, and still wanting them to come to God and working with them in that process. It may take a lifetime, it may never happen. Yeah. But if you don't even try and you shun them, you've done them a great disservice right there. And I'm not certain you're doing what God wants you to do at that point.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

So we love, we don't condone, we don't celebrate. And this is where community really I mean if these people are well, I think I know you talk a lot about the men's group on Monday. Yeah. That's a that's a great fellowship and uh that's a great opportunity for men to be transparent, vulnerable. Um vulnerable doesn't sound like a masculine word, but uh but yeah, I mean I think we're supposed to confess our sins to one another, right? We have to be in a community environment to be able to do that. And I think that's missing in most people's lives. Yeah. And then when you hear, you know, Joe across the room say, Man, I've been struggling with blank, right? And maybe you've seen it and you didn't you haven't said anything. Now you're like, Oh, okay, he gets it, he understands it. And now that he said that, you know, maybe you maybe it's just uncovered for the first time. So you're like, man, we want to cover Joe in prayer concerning that. Yeah. Yeah. And but if you're not in those groups, that's why you know how much spiritual development takes place in community, but if there is no community, then you know, we're we're stalled out.

When Kids And Kin Wander

SPEAKER_02 22:40

And I think to go along with that, it's hard on people to get into some groups because they're searching for that group that's filled with people that think exactly the way they think, believe exactly the way they believe, want the exact same things out of a church. And when you go to that side, now you're in that easy Christianity mode. You're looking for that thing that that allows you to be you around people that want to be like you. And the truth of the matter is when you you you look at some of the best uh Bible groups or men's groups I've ever been in, and it's a cross-section of people from different backgrounds, from different not only socioeconomic backgrounds, but from different religious backgrounds, from different church backgrounds that come at things from different angles. And that's where you when you when you're all thinking the same way, and you're almost in that limbing area, you're not sharpening anything. You can't sharpen something without a little bit of friction, you can't sharpen something without a little bit of you know, grinding. If you're all moving in the same direction, all believing the same thing, all working just to keep getting along, you're not sharpening anything. And there's far too many folks. And I've been in that boat many times where I I would go to a church and I just wasn't comfortable there because they were saying things that, man, that's that's a hard lesson. I I want to go with somebody where people are gonna tell me, hey man, we love you, and you know, you know, we we we're we're praying for you and we want you to be successful, we want you to get this and get this, and we're here for you, and and you're doing all right, you're moving all right. Well, you know, okay, but when when you're not really moving all right.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

You don't need to be told that.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

That's right. You don't need to be there just because uh, you know, oh I feel so good when I leave there. I feel rejuvenated. I feel so good. I and I'm doing everything right. He just told me I was. And if that's what happens, and that's the kind of Bible study group you're in, you're not in a you're not in a growth community there. And and and I'm not talking about growing numbers on a Sunday or I'm talking about growing you spiritually. And you have to have that kind of group where not everybody thinks the same to get that spiritual growth. Because if I you and I walk hand in hand thinking the same thing our whole lives, we're never gonna learn anything.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Yeah. It's good. So give me the last word. Come on. Well, I I just, you know, you've got some great pictures of your family over on the wall, but a couple of them made me think about the old high school junior high annual or yearbook, and you know, when you hated, didn't like somebody, you'd scratch their picture out. You know, and I think we don't do that, right? That's what we're talking about. Just because we don't agree or someone's sinning, we don't scratch their face out in our junior high yearbook. I did have one daughter right here. She ripped out an old boyfriend. Oh, did she oh I see that now. Yeah, no, I just those are great pictures. I love them and love seeing different stages of your family. But well, I think we might have done that a couple times. I mean, Jack's bringing some girl like a cat bringing a rat to your front door every six months. Different girl, here she is. I want you to like her. Fix those pictures.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

You could go into AI now and just have them switch them over, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

That wasn't a great last word. But yeah, I think I think just you know, really capturing the idea of biblical love and be able to communicate that and not acting like the culture, even when the culture treats you the way you don't want to be treated because they disagreed with you. I don't know if that made sense.

Returning After A Long Detour

SPEAKER_02 26:42

All right. I I it's my turn to pray. So Dear Lord, we thank you for this day, and we thank you for all that you do for us and the ability to get on here and put out a podcast so people can listen and and get get get more of your message. And our goal is to make disciples and spread your word. And so, Father, I pray that you help those folks as they listen to this today, and they have those challenges in their life with those people that are challenges to them, and that they not just shut the door to those people, not just walk away from those people, whether they're the one who feels like they're right, or they're the one that feels like you know that they're being accused of something that maybe they don't find to be a sin, Father. We hope that those dialogues will stay open, and we pray that that that you would work through those folks to help each other, to sharpen each other, and to make each other more in line with what you would have them to be, so that they can have a closer walk with you, Father. We thank you for all that you do, and we just pray all this in Christ's name. Amen. All right, well, that is another edition on the air. And like I said earlier, if you're in the Rockdale area, please come on by on Sunday. We're at the American Legion. You can just Google American Legion, Rockdale, Texas. It's the Carlisle Post. Come on by, we will have a prayer at 10, have coffee and donuts at 10, and then worship will start at 10:30. Everybody's welcome. If you have youngsters, we do have a children's church and a nursery, and we'll be happy to see you. Until next week, God bless.